I initiated a discussion with my kids over dinner tonight, about the sermon at the Grand Prix. (See previous post.) My oldest started by saying that she liked it a lot. So I asked them what they thought the main point was. They agreed that it was that God wants us to confess our sins and loves us even when we mess up. They could accurately recount the stories he told to support his point. Then I asked them what was similar between the allegory and the reality of Christ, and they gave good, true, and perceptive answers. They were able to see some differences between what the story king did and what the real king Jesus did.
They had been listening. What they learned was predominately true and good. And it gave us a chance to talk about things.
I wish that this kind of discussion was not treason. Why is it that we must fully agree with every word and not poke and test things? I want my kids to have these discussions, in their heads, and at home. But I try to warn them strongly against trying it in church. My oldest asked me not long ago how old you had to be to argue with the teacher in church. I told her it would never be okay. That makes me sad.
I also wonder how accurate teaching needs to be to be good enough. There is a line there somewhere. I am not talking about judging others and deciding who's in and who's out of the kingdom. I'm talking about choosing one's company, one's traveling companions. I'm willing to accept that a lot of folks I think are very wrong about some things are indeed part of God's family. How much does right belief matter, anyway? This preacher kid had the main point correct: God loves us and wants us to come to him, dirty or not. If he had other parts of it mixed up, how uptight should we be about that? What he taught may put a stumbling block in front of someone. Does God take false things and teach truth through them? Surely true teachings have been taken and used to teach falsehood.
When my kids are learning to write, I do not at first insist that they spell everything right. I do not at first insist that they put spaces between their words. But as time goes on, I show them the right way to punctuate, and spell, and use language. As they grow, I expect them to move closer to "correct writing." I wonder if God does this with our theology.
But if I kept on saying, "write whatever you want, don't worry about rules or right," then my kids wouldn't move towards writing well. If correct theology isn't honored and lifted up, will we move toward orthodoxy? Or will we believe--and live--in a way that is the equivalent to gibberish and hen scratch?
And what is orthodoxy, anyway. The Holy Spirit is supposed to lead us into all truth, and yet it is possible to find a church that teaches and practices almost anything, even among those that share the same Confession. That's annoying.
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Why did you tell that it is never ok to argue with the teacher? I guess argue would be different than challenging... arguing involves pride... but I would suggest you teach your kids to be honest and humble. Challenge the fake religion and feel good stuff and let them bring truth. If they know it, and can present another case clearly, without making it personal... maybe you should let them. It might cause some teachers to read the Bible a little more than their curriculum booklets.
Church, in my experience, is not a safe place to say, "I think that point may not be right because of XYZ." I have been rebuked in Bible Study at LWF for it. I've had a pastor's wife (picture sweet April, though it wasn't her) scream in my face with red outrage that I was insulting her husband's leadership. I hurt another pastor. I've been told by my angry brothers and sisters that questioning reflects a lack of submission to my God given authority and "covering"--they mean the teacher/leaders. And my questions have caused others to threaten to (and actually) leave churches. I can list names.
I would save my children this suffering. It hurts. Does it make people think? Maybe. But is church a safe place for anyone to think? What if you thought about it and decided that the dispensationalist view was right? What would that do to your relationship with your church, your job, your closeness with friends, if what you discovered meant you couldn't say amen to their prayers, couldn't sing the songs they loved? It is more conducive to unity to not think. I kid you not.
I'm speaking out of pain and disillusionment now, I know. After all these years, you'd think I'd be over it. I don't know how to close my eyes to what commercial church is.
I just read Jerry Cook's website, http://www.4nets.com/jerrycook/default.asp. Mike, it frightens and sickens me. It's all marketing, like they were selling a can of tomatoes. Like being published or being a pastor of a big church should make him an attractive product to buy. There is very little content of what the man is preaching offered, and what is there is weak. He might be a great teacher, I can't tell, unless I put my cash on the table. And there is a quote on one of his tapes that says "beliefs are important, but they aren’t what makes you Christian" I can't even find out what on earth he means by that heretical sounding quote, because I don't have $8!
An organization that markets leaders like this is not a safe place to question. It is not about facilitating a discussion that leads to the discovery of truth for the benefit of all. It is about maintaining the order of one person talking (the important one) and everyone else agreeing, and not looking at it too closely.
The alternative is messy, messy, messy.
I understand what you are saying. And it makes me really sad that churches have succombed to this type of thinking. Church needs to be a safe place to think. I am so sorry that you have met with those experiences. I get where you are coming from. I have the platform to share what I think and you do not. If I came to the place where it seems you describe that you are, then I would struggle as well. Here's what I do do. In the things I don't agree with, I have learned to pray. With what opportunity I can, I share the truth. When I can't sing the songs everyone else is singing, I sing my own song. When I don't agree with their prayers, I pray my own. When I have the floor to talk, I do, when I don't, I am learning to pray. I can still hold my own values, truths, etc, and be my own person, even in the midst of a congregation of people that have theirs. If something ever came up that would conflict with what I belived to be the place I'd have to leave, if the Lord dismissed me, or the leadership, then I would have to be dismissed. But as long as grace allows, I will be me, here. And offer what I have to the mix. Being humble, and closed lipped when the Lord said 'close your lips.'
Good and wise words, Mike. My experience at LWF was often one of just keeping my mouth shut. But that isn't the same thing as being of one mind and giving and receiving. Definately a stunted relationship.
I hope you don't mind me writing about this stuff in this forum. I didn't think it would hurt anything, and it helps me work it through.
Nope. I don't mind at all.
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