We are believers without a body. What nonsense that is! Here we are, walking out a faith that says that outsiders will know we trust Christ by how we love one another, and we are largely cut off from the typical "one anothering" of a church! We find ourselves living in an age where we see the Day approaching, and completely unable to figure out how to gather together, as Hebrews 10:25 encourages us to do.
We've been told to just go to church. I'd really like to. Honest I would. But my husband and I are burdened with the impression that it matters what we believe and it matters if what we embrace is true. Can we chime in singing "More Love, More Power..." when we've been given "everything we need for life and godliness?" Shall I shrug it off when the pastor's wife attempts suicide--and not question that the faith we are pursuing together does not appear to be the abundant life that Jesus promised, marked by love, joy, peace, patience, etc? I am not asking people to be perfect. I just need the gospel preached to be the Good News that Jesus sacrificed everything to bring us.
When we go to church, we see people who are not being revived by truth and comforted by the love of one another and God. The last church we went to (for a year), charged $300 for its discipleship program--the main way people could connect with one another and learn more about their faith. This discipleship program--"Ministry Training Institute" it's called--has people listen to teaching, then break into groups and practice what they heard. They pretend that someone is unsaved, and practice what they would say to them. This baffles me. We walk by the new way of the Spirit. I assume that there are people in these groups with actual needs--hurts, wounds, questions, etc. And instead of using this time to *actually* minister and connect with one another, this time is used for posing and pretending so that they can put on a better show at some other point!
MTI also gives homework. Apparently, the students must pray with a certain number of people to receive Christ, a certain number to be "baptized in the Spirit", etc. Three different people approached me or family members to see if we wanted to help them fulfill their checklist. They didn't know us, didn't really care if they were offering what we needed or if God was leading, they only had their eyes on getting those points so they could graduate from MTI with the proper credentials. The woman who offered to pray with me to receive the spirit asked me to do so while I was in the middle of coordinating an event for 300 people! This is what is being most promoted as fellowship and growth in Christ at that church. I don't even know where to begin with that. Just go along with it? It seems like blasphemy. Pointless at best, excrutiatingly damaging at worst--that was the body that had their dear pastor's wife make an attempt on her own life. I feel for them. Am I wrong to bail off the sinking ship? Should I expose my kids to that? My husband is so discouraged by it, it locks him up for half the week just feeling so alienated. I don't even want him to go there. But where is it any different? I don't know of any place where the truth is taught and fellowship is lived. Shall I just go to church and not worry about whether what is preached is true? Shall we just go to a church where our ideas would be disruptive to what the pastor sees as the direction the church is going? We believe that tithing is wrong--not good, not neutral, but not okay at all. Do you know a church where anyone who is allowed to teach could hold that perspective? What would become of the group enthusiasm for the building project? ;-)
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I understand. We had been looking for about 15 years for a church that we fit into. Right now we are trying Calvary Chapel. We have been going there six months now. It seems like a closer fit than anything else we have found.
Check out and see if there is one by you:
http://www.calvarychapel.com/
?show=Churches
oooh oooh. I have some comments on MTI! :) I am doing the promo for the church right now. I get what you are saying on the whole, but until you've walked through MTI its hard to say what it is like except through hearsay.
I wasn't sure what to think of it at first, but then again, I went to a "Bible College" and paid a lot of money for it.
As i have been interviewing people for this promo video, I have been totally astounded on how much MTI has changed their lives. Their aspect and perspective on ministry. There are some incredible testimonies that have come out of the first year of MTI. People who have found the confidence (from the Holy Spirit) to minister to people in incredible ways!
It is a Ministry Training Institute. People learn to minister to one another. To correct a thought you introduced, they practice ministry skills in the small groups, not the material they just learned about. The bulk of the classroom stuff is bible teaching from topics covering an overview of the Bible, The Holy Spirit, Theology of Christ, Sin, Man, God, Etc. Its basically Bible College in a nutshell...
In the Small groups they practice, sharing their testimony, praying for someone to be healed, listening to the Holy Spirit for direction for prayer, leading someone in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, etc.
The cool part is that there were people with real needs, and they always asked, and prayed for those people, while practicing listening to the Holy Spirit.
To make a long story, longer. I just heard some incredible testimony of what God did in MTI. How a man from our church led a woman to the Lord in the middle of a business meeting. How an old lady shared the gospel with a 95 year old woman that felt that God couldn't forgive her for 95 years of junk. And how people have been encouraged, and learned, that they can do these things.
Its pretty amazing and I am preparing to encourage someone from our church to participate. 1) Because he is young in the faith and it will ground him in the things he believes, and 2) Because he is afraid to "minister" pray for, encourage, etc. people.
All joy here :) Glad you are doing this, and glad I can respond... hopefully with insight, and not with more dirt. Pun intended.
Mike, thanks for the balance. It never ceases to amaze me how God does his thing, every where, through likely and unlikely channels. I admit that much of my impression of MTI was not from the small bit we attended (just the extra sessions on spiritual gifts)but more from what we saw others doing in relation to it. I was put off by one testimony given by a young MTI grad that they had "known" better than their elders how to handle a situation, and it came off as "knowledge puffs up". Hmm...I have more to say on that. I will email you. But yes, by all means, gather the troups and press into the foundations of faith. I'll sit here being jealous! Or, maybe I'll get my visa out and sign up, so I can jump up and yell, "That's crap!" whenever I disagree!
hehe! You're awesome!
Thanks, Mike. I still think John Decker is a heretic and would go to hell (if there was one.) ;-) I guess I shouldn't joke about that, huh. I don't think he's preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, and that is nothing to laugh about. Just because people like something doesn't make it true, or beneficial in the long run. There are folks who think they've been edified when they go to a conference that makes them feel guilty and renews their commitment to "try harder", when in fact they have been sent back to the law (self effort) that will lead them into sin and death--not the righteousness they seek. Likewise, I think people can feel encouraged and excited when their imaginations are fanned into more vividly picturing the power they wield...whether or not anything is really happening. We don't need a more vivid imagination. We need to be able to see what is going on now, and keep our hope in what is still to come. But I remain somewhat tempted to sign up for MTI...for blog fodder if nothing else. ;-)
I am uneasy about John and Sonja too. There were some things I disagreed with in the MTI lessons. But I am a big boy, and discerned those things and disagreed. I even disagreed in my small group on some matters.
But on the whole I have seen the MTI class benefit many who were unlearned and unpracticed in both doctrine and ministry.
I don't like John Decker, but most of the materials are ok and will challenge most believers.
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